.          This is a letter, which I wrote a friend of mine, who read a poor commentary on 1John 2:2.  It was immediately apparent to me that my friend was confused and their pure gospel was under attacked.  This person then emailed me about this the following day.  I responded with answering several of their questions.  I am passionate to post this letter here because it revolves around one of the most fundamental pillars of Christianity itself.  It is easy to say Jesus saved me, but how is the question.

           See, what I have come to know is that reformed or biblical theology is "Cross theology."  It all happened, salvation that is, at Calvary! Paid in full!  Other unbiblical misconceptions, takes away the glory of the true biblical foundation, which is the only sure rock that the church can rest its faith on: Christ fully accomplished salvation on the cross, end of story.  This is what faith believes: the Lord Jesus Christ did everything to save me, He did it all, even free grace to cause me to believe.  He finished His work on the cross.  Accordingly, my salvation is finished.  Christ is a complete Savior, and, therefore, no one compares to His Honor and Fame! 

.           One way to know this is by understanding the various ways Christ our Lord was a complete Savior when He so lovingly died for the church.  One particular aspect of this is in the biblical word "propitiation."  What tends to happen, whether because of laziness or intentional evil these biblical words and concepts about the many accomplishments of Christ on the cross become blurred.  This means Christ' glory is diminished and faith is likewise diminished.  Propitiation because it deals with the wrath of God and lots of blood, particularly Christ's, leads Christians even Christian leaders not to preach it prominently and as clearly as the Scriptures wants us to.

         I hope this letter will serve my readers in knowing the Glory of your Savior being a propitiation for your sins.  This letter has been slightly updated and edited and also contains a follow up email in response.

For the person's identify sake their name will be Bob.

Furthermore, here are some related articles to read:

The Difference between Salvation and Conversion

&

The 3 Basics of Jesus' finished work on the Cross:

Bob wrote:

Vines says that propitiation means, "an expiation, a means whereby sin is covered and remitted." So we might paraphrase 2:2 as, "He is the means we would use for getting our sins covered and remitted. He is also the means by which anyone in the whole world may have their sins covered and remitted."

          His statement appears to be irrational and is spoken as if he has little understanding of the biblical definition of "propitiation" and of the Old Testaments' use of it.  I will discuss later that "means" is not a wrong explanation, but it can easily be misunderstood. Vines words although wonderfully true are missing the particulars of what "propitiation" exactly is. Also I have not read Vines beyond what you quoted to me in your letter, so that I am  left to critique this statement as if this is what he really means in his definition of propitiation.

          First "propitiation" and "expiation" are two different definitions.  It boggles my mind why he says propitiation is, and then says its expiation, when they are to different definitions!  Propitiation means there is a very angry God and a sacrifice stands in and soaks up God's wrath to appease Him in blood.  That's what the definition means!  Propitiation in its strictest definition means, "to appease" and particularly "a god's wrath with blood sacrifice." Expiation, on the other hand, means to cleans sins away, which is different than appeasing God's wrath.  See, propitiation's focus is on God and His wrath being appeased.  Expiation is about the sinner being cleaned from the filth of sin.  These to work together but are two different acts!  This combined act of propitiation and expiation is called atonement. 

        This is where some of the confusion can come in.  For Atonement when used in the scripture can refer to one of these specific acts, or both.

        All this understanding has its beginning in Leviticus 16, where Israel practiced one of its biggest yearly feasts and ordinances, which is called:  Yom Kippur, or The Day of Atonement.  It is here on the Day of Atonement that both propitiation (verses 7-10, 15-16) and expiation (verses 7-10, 20-26) are explained.  The goat used for propitiation, the act of appeasing God's wrath, is properly called the "sin offering."  Furthermore, the goat, which is for expiation, is properly called the "escape goat." 

        The book of Hebrews particularly focuses on this Day of Atonement.  For example Hebrews chapter 9 verse 7 when it says the priest "went alone once a year" is directly preaching about Leviticus 16 and The Day of Atonement.  Therefore, Hebrews says referring to the act of propitiation on The Day of Atonement concerning Christ as our High Priest that, "Christ with His own blood entered the Most Holy Place one for all, having obtained eternal redemption (verse 11-12).  Christ's blood was spilt because He was the "sin offering."  This meant since Christ Jesus soaked up God's wrath for us to appease God's anger His blood had to be spilt.  Secondly in Chapter 13 verse 12 says the following refers to expiation: "Jesus that He might sanctify the people with His own blood suffered outside the gate."  See, just as the "escape goat" which had the sins of the people transferred to it was forced to outside of the camp of Israel because it was cursed, so to Jesus Christ having been made sin for the church was force outside of Jerusalem being cursed, being crucified at Gabbatha, so that Jesus might cleans us of all our sins.  Indeed, our sins where imputed to Him while our sins were eternally taken away from us.  This is the saving glory that belongs to Christ our Lord.

        See, propitiation is Christ making eternal peace with God by absorbing all God's wrath and so appeasing Him.  Expiation is the act of Christ making us clean and pure before God because He was made sin for us, or that He had our sin transferred to Him.

          From this alone all of what Vines says is completely wrong and irrational.  For did you not say: "But the question really becomes, is this what the OT writers assumed?"  Well, seeing that I have answered this question I could end this letter, but I wish to fully crush this opinion of Vines.

Vines says that propitiation means, "an expiation, a means whereby sin is covered and remitted." So we might paraphrase 2:2 as, "He is the means we would use for getting our sins covered and remitted. He is also the means by which anyone in the whole world may have their sins covered and remitted." 

&

 This also fits tightly with the other uses of the word in the NT (Romans 3:25, 1 John 4:10).

           This type of logic is inadequate.  For anyone could come up with many phrases that in effect "makes since" or make for a "easy reading" of this verse and the others with "propitiation" in it, But Who CARES!  A child could do that.  Vines is not showing of right understanding of this verse no matter how much it makes since.  The right thing to ask is: whether hard or easy reading, what does the verse say?   With this premise I will address a few more issues you brought up.  But before that let me properly paraphrase 1 John 2:2 with regard to propitiation: "Jesus Christ has eternally appeased God's wrath by being a sin offering for us, but not only for us, but for the whole world."  Yet you made this point:

 "I am less certain this is speaking of Christians and Jews as John Piper thinks.  It does not say /propitiated/, it says He is the /propitiation/." 

          This is totally beside the point.  It is irrelevant because Christ being a wrath bear to appease God was a one time act at a definite place and a definite time.  Therefore, when the Apostles refers propitiation to Christ, it is always referring to a past tense, whether or not it says propitiation or propitiated.  I speak this way because Hebrews which actually talked about The Day of Atonement and the propitiation part of it says this about it: "with His own blood entered the Most Holy Place one for all, having obtained eternal redemption."  See, when the bible interpreting itself when speaking about propitiation does not says things like "the means whereby sins are covered", but "once for all" and "eternal redemption" and a one time act of "blood" being shed.  The bible instead of refereeing to propitiation as a means talks about it as an "act."  This is a huge difference! As an act that has already happened is will always be viewed as past tense. 

        In addition I have already shown you that 1 John 5:19 when referring to the "whole world" is actually referring to only the wicked part of the world.  John says the same thing in Revelation 12:9 when we read of the Devil "which deceives the whole world".  This expression cannot be understood as truly the whole world, for Matthew 24:24 tells us that Satan does not and cannot "deceive" God's elect.  "The whole world" is only referring to unbelievers.  Furthermore, Paul separates the Jewish saints and Gentile saints by saying all the world as in, Colossians 1:6, when he states, " [The gospel] which has come to you, as it has also in all the world is bringing forth fruit."  Had every living soul really heard the gospel in the whole world?  No.  Paul is saying the Jews have believed Christ and now the Gentile world has heard it too and some are believing.  So that the "all the world" is only referring to the Gentile part of the world.

          Therefore, it is easy to conceive how I or Piper say 1 John 2:2 which uses the same phrase "whole world" and being structure similar to 5:19 only refers to the elect, both present (Jewish Christians) and future tense (Gentile Christians).  A.W. Pink addressing this verse has this to add: "the fact that this verse opens with "and" necessarily links it with what has gone before.  We, therefore, give a literal word for word translation of I John 2 :1 from Bagster's Interlinear: "Little children my, these things I write to you, that ye may not sin; and if any one should sin, a Mediator we have with the Father, Jesus Christ (the) righteous".  It will thus be seen that the apostle John is here writing to and about the saints of God."  Therefore, the propitiation was for the saints.

So basically, it doesn't say that anything has been done for anyone in the world -- yet.  It only says the means are available to them, if they should choose to believe God's promises.

        I believe I have already refuted this idea.  The Bible when referring to propitiation refers to the ACT of God at a definite place and time having His wrath appeased, and therefore, EVERYTHING has happened.  Because everything has already happened the only thing left for you to do is acknowledge this in faith and repentance.  Your statement from above says the complete opposite.

Also works well with Ephesians, Romans, Galatians, etc., the salvation by faith alone.  The means are available for any person, just believe and they will be applied.

        The bible does indeed refer to Christ's death as a means for the world to be saved (John 3:16).  But 1John 2:2 because it says propitiation does not!  This way of speaking as Christ death as a means is used for infant believers who use immature faith to believe the basic message of the gospel.  But for the mature Christian, as the Book of Hebrews talks about, they have a deeper faith in the Cross.  This deeper faith, in part, comes from knowing what propitiation is as it relates to what faith is.  See, faith sees how God has already done everything, and so merely acknowledges this with joy, by the Holy Spirit.  This is the essence of a mature faith!  This is the essence of what Romans 4:5 says.  We do "not work" because Christ has become once and for all a wrath bearer or "propitiation (3:25)" therefore, faith merely "believes" God "justifies" the ungodly all by Himself.  Therefore, it is this kind of "faith" that is "accounted" as "righteousness."

        Understand, faith does not activate the blood of Christ, for Christ has already given His blood as payment to His Father 2000 years ago.  Instead, Christ's blood activates faith in us, through the power of the Spirit, for that is what His blood purchased -our faith.

        Furthermore, the other places with the word for "propitiation" can only be understood rightly when understood as Christ appeasing God's wrath as an ACT not means.  Romans 3:25,"God set forth [Christ] as a propitiation by His blood, through faith, to demonstrate His righteousness, because in His forbearance God had passed over the sins that were previously committed." Means might make for a easy reading of this verse but it also makes for a hardening of its meaning.  The verse if paraphrased would read: "God send forth Jesus Christ to appease His Almighty wrath by His Blood."

      Notice on The Day of Atonement that the "escape goat" did not bleed, but only the goat used for appeasing God's wrath, the "sin offering."  In this light Romans 3:25, only, and I mean only, is understood correctly when seen in that light.  It is not by accident propitiation and blood are used together in this verse.  By doing so it directly is referring to The Day of Atonement, as a one time ACT of God's wrath being appease in blood!

      This is what our precious Jesus Christ did for us.  Christ Jesus underwent hour after hour of God's fierce wrath, and hour after hour of more Almighty wrath.  Accordingly, His Father stuck His Son with His heavenly Sword in severe anger until the Son cried out under the weight of its blows: "Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani?" which is translated, "My God, My God, why have You forsaken Me?"  God's wrath after this act was appeased for all whom Christ said He would die for, thus He cried out, "It is finished!"  This is what propitiation means.  And all who believe this bow in love, for no thanks to them they were saved by Him.

      Moreover, the word for propitiation in the book of Hebrews chapter 2 is obviously referring to the act of "appeasing God's wrath" for three reasons.  It is what the Greek word means! (To appease wrath)  Secondly, Hebrews the book refers to The Day of Atonement.  And thirdly, because in the actual verse propitiation is mentioned it referees to Christ as High Priest.  This is again referring to The Day of Atonement and the sin offering of appeasing God's wrath that the High Priest had to perform.  Yet for Jesus Christ it was Himself who was the sin offering and not a worthless goat. 

        John 3:36: "Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him." Before I went to the cross, while I lived in disobedience to the Son, wrath had not yet been propitiated for me, according to this verse. 

         This verse says nothing of the sort!  It does not say "propitiation" or any other Greek word referring to the act of propitiation in any form or fashion.   If what you said is true then Christ would have to die on the cross again!  Hebrews chapter 6 states if Christ is crucified again it would be to His "open shame."  The reason is because it would show His first attempt as a failure!  Propitiation means to die in blood to appease God's wrath.  Therefore, if my sins have not yet be propitiated Christ would have to die again, under God's wrath, to accomplish the act of propitiation for me!  This of course is total nonsense.

        What you have here is something similar to the doctrine of "Two wills with God."  This is seen in Deuteronomy 28:63 and Ezekiel 18:23.  In one place God takes delight in killing the wicked in the other He says He doesn't.  This is similar to a parent who does and doesn't want to spank their beloved child, so that they have two desires about the object, yet for two different reasons.  God greatly delights for justice sake in killing wicked people.  Yet at the same time He doesn't delight in the fact a human life (made in the likeness of God) was wasted and a soul ruined forever. 

        This will help us understand John 3:36 and the like.  Because this verse does not refer to propitiation (the act of Christ appeasing) then we would be wrong to assume it like you have.  God's wrath or anger can refer to more the just the act of sin being appeased in propitiation.  God's wrath as a parent is often times stirred up against is children and close friends.  Take Moses for example, who was the friend of God, after he struck the rock for the water to flow out, God's anger was stirred up against him, so much so, God denied him from entering the promise land!

        So, for a general doctrine I would say this:  Although God's wrath for your sins have been appeased in the act of Jesus Christ being sin offering for them, yet God will still look upon these persons, in part, as objects of God's wrath until they in time and space confesses what Jesus Christ has already done for them.   

        Why? Consider, Psalm 33:1, "Rejoice in the LORD, O you righteous! For praise from the upright is beautiful."  God commands us to be "giving thanks always for all things to God."  By why? Because it is a proper and right thing to give thanks and praise to whom it belongs!  If sincere praise is beautiful then the person who had their sins appeased for by Christ before they converted are then the opposite, for they are not thankful for what God did for them.  They are ugly and God's is angry with them for not acknowledging in sincere faith and praise the wonderful things His Son did for them!  Furthermore, they are still actively living sinful lives against the majesty of His Name.

        But not only did Christ appease God's wrath for our sins, but He purchased for us the gift of the promised Holy Spirit.   Acts 2:33, "Therefore being exalted to the right hand of God, and having received from the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, He poured out."  And, John 3:8, "The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear the sound of it, but cannot tell where it comes from and where it goes. So is everyone who is born of the Spirit."  Therefore, Ephesians 2:8 says this, "by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God."  Yet, this is said soon after chapter 2 said, "we all once conducted ourselves in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, just as the others." 

         Ephesians 2:3, "We were by nature children of wrath, just as the others."  By our nature and behavior we, (now saved saints), were under God's wrath before our conversion, because we naturally acted sinfully and all the while not loving and being thankful to God for what His Son did for us.  The world "nature" means also in a strict since physical being or physical form.  So that physically we were under God's wrath in our bodies and lives in this world before we were converted, but not spiritually.  Christ already appeased God's wrath for each one of our sins.  Because we were not under God's wrath spiritually God spiritually gave us the "gift" of "grace" and "faith" and the "Holy Spirit" so that we might properly believe in the finished work of Christ worked for us.  This was done to God glory so that we might properly start to live lives of praise and thanks to God always for His dying love given to us.  If God's wrath fully rested on us, before we were converted, He would NOT have given us the "gift" of "faith, for His wrath is in full!  This means God's wrath spoken of to the all the elect persons Christ originally died is only on them in a partial sense until He gives them the gift of "regeneration."

        Yet, John 3:36 is referring to something slightly different.  Here John is referring to God's predestining of persons whom He saved and didn't save in Christ bloodshed.   This is true because John is heavily relying on the rest of his gospel were Jesus Christ His Master taught that same doctrine: (6:65) "And He said, "Therefore I have said to you that no one can come to Me unless it has been granted to him by My Father."  &  (8:43) "Why do you not understand My speech? Because you are NOT able to listen to My word."  &  (8:37) "EVERYONE who is of the truth hears My voice."  &  "10:16 " I lay down My life for the sheep. And other sheep I have which are not of this fold; them also I must bring, and they WILL hear My voice."  & (10:26) "But you do not believe, because you are NOT of My sheep, as I said to you."

You said:

Before I went to the cross, while I lived in disobedience to the Son, wrath had not yet been propitiated for me, according to this verse.

         If you let the Gospel of John interrupt itself then what you have said is not only off, but a complete 180 from what it is really saying.  Here Jesus Christ says that only for His sheep did he die for or was a propitiation for!  This is why the others do not listen to Him, because they are not one of His sheep.  He was a full Atonement for (propitiation and expiation) for them only.  This is why Jesus says that these others are NOT able to listen or come to Him.  The persons He died for have already been united to Him in the Act of His death at that particular place and particular time.  Therefore, all these persons even before they are converted (although by nature or physically are still sinners) are of the "truth" by them already being united to Christ in His act of dying for them.  The sheep are converted because they have already been united to Him in the act of His death, for He died for them.

        Jesus Himself says in John 3:3, "Unless one is born again, he cannot see the Kingdom of God." Jesus made a profound point here. The truth of God and of His Kingdom (Including all that is in it: His Son, His beauty and even His grace) are blinded to you, until you are born again. The truth is this, how can you repent of your sins to a God who you cannot even see? The oblivious fact is you do not. Until you are regenerated or born again of the Spirit, to have spiritual life back, then you do not even have the ability to see the Kingdom of God and His Son, let alone believe or repent to Him. This is why Paul said in 2 Timothy 2:25, "If God perhaps will grants them Repentance." In other words, if God does not choose to blow the wind of His Spirit to you and born you again in Spiritual life, then you cannot even see His Kingdom let alone repent and have true faith. 

       Christ purchased the church with His blood.  He paid all her sins and debts on the cross by His blood.  He was their propitiation.  He did this in payment to His Father who was the violated party.  The Father was the creditor and record holder of our crimes.  Thus, Christ paid our salvation 2000 years ago, in Full! Furthermore, in order for Christ to receive in Heaven His purchase, of the church, the Father does "grant...repentance" to the church, by sending the Holy Spirit to born them again in His Spiritual life.  This ushers in spiritual sight and senses so that they do see His Kingdom and Kingdom's decree of the gospel and so by their new Spiritual life, do spiritually believe in the Son of God.

 Lastly Bob, you asked be about the theme of 1 John:

        You are right in saying John 5:13 is the basic thesis of John's letter.  But you will not understand this thesis statement aright until you understand where this thesis statement came from.  What happened is that some persons within this local church left (2:19) forsaking the faith, and therefore, they themselves began to doubt their own salvation.  This letter is John's response to that concern and 5:13 is thus his basic thesis.  "These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life, and that you may continue to believe in the name of the Son of God."  John's goal is to show (1) what is true evidence of conversion or belief in Jesus Christ, and (2) secondly to show that those who are truly converted cannot lose their salvation, because they indeed have everlasting life.

        We will not deal with the first point, but the second.  When seen in this light it makes perfect since why John used the word choice of "propitiation", which refers to the act of appeasement of wrath.   John tells us he "witnessed" Jesus' death and resurrection.  Then he proceeds to tell us that: (1:9) "if we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleans us."  One would think this verse should read, "if you confess your sins God is merciful to forgive", but it says the complete opposite.  The verse reads that God is just as if He owes us sinners something!!!  Jesus, because He was a "propitiation" for the church already in His blood, God the Father MUST forgive us if we confess our sins.  He must do this if the Father is to be just and loving to His Son Jesus, who has already appeased His wrath and paid for them by His own physical blood.  Therefore, God's justice or righteous is beautiful, because in Jesus Christ, it insures and is the ground of our confidence for being eternally forgiven and loved by our glorious God.  Therefore, the blood of Jesus Christ never fails!  This is why John wrote what he wrote in this letter.  He wanted to give his children the strongest hope of assurance for their forgiveness and fellowship with the Timeless and Glorious God. 

        I find it strange and wonderful that a guilty sinner, while trusting in Jesus Christ, is able to plea for Justice to be for forgiven!  What an amazing God we serve and love.  What incredible love our lord Jesus has showed and has given us to make such a precious thing reality!

          This is the same for 1 John 4:10, "this is love, not that we loved God, but that He loved us and sent His Son to be the propitiation for our sins."  See, the most difficult part of the cross for Jesus Christ was not the part of enduring man's wrath, or even the mere physical pain.  The hardest part was enduring the personal WRATH of God His Father, hour after horrible hour!  This why John when wanting to show the deepest level of Christ's love for us does not merely refer to the cross or atonement in a general manner, but singles about the particular part of His dying love: "propitiation."  John is saying you know beyond all doubt how deeply Jesus Christ loves you because He put Himself under the weight of His God's Almighty wrath, to appeases God for us.  If God loved us this much then how much more will He keep us in the faith to persevere?  This was John giving his readers the encouragement to continue in believing in God for He loved them so much, because Jesus endured the terrible personal wrath of God for them!!

         Zechariah 13:7, "Awake, O sword, against My Shepherd, Against the Man who is My Companion," Says the LORD of hosts. "Strike the Shepherd."  & The Scriptures also record that Jesus was "stricken, [slaughtered] by God, and afflicted.  It pleased the LORD to bruise Him; He has put Him to grief. When You make His soul an offering for sin." (Isaiah 53:4,10)  The same wrath, Yes, the same "winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God (Revelation 19:15)" which throws human souls in an eternal burning hell was the same wrath thrust upon Jesus Christ by God.   Let us not forget what our Savior had to endure to save our worthless fifthly souls!  Let us not forget words like propitiation, which remind us particularly the most hellish part of Christ sacrifice, which He out of love endured for us!

          Jesus knew all to well what He was doing when He accepted to have God's horrific wrath against ours sinning placed upon Himself.  A blood sacrifice was the only way for Christ to remove God's wrath from us, and yet, He set His face like flint and endured the wrath, the shame and the pain for His church.  When facing the cross Jesus faced God's wrath infinitely more tangible and real than the wrath of mere mortal men, which was only part of God's wrath being poured upon our Savior.  Christ our lord cried out, "Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani?" which is translated, "My God, My God, why have You forsaken Me", not because of man's wrath but of God's!  This is why He cried, MY God!  By appeasing God's fierce anger Christ proves the deepest part of His love for us.  There is no aspect of the cross that shows Christ's eternal love for us deeper than this.  This is the very reason why John singles it out and says: this is what love really is!  Other aspects of Christ's sacrifice, such as Him giving us His righteousness, might give us more visible and marvelous benefits such as being made one with Himself, but the aspect of Him appeasing God's hellish wrath still showcases best His love towards us in its depth and preciousness! 1 John 4:10, "this is love, not that we loved God, but that He loved us and sent His Son to appease the fullness of His wrath for our sakes, by giving His body and soul to be a sin offering!"  This is what LOVE IS!  And all who believe in Christ's wonderful precious Name has the fullness of this love to infill, to cover and hold them forever!  If this is you then never stop offering the sacrifices of praise, love, thanksgiving and adoration to your Redeemer.

       In case we see the Father in a wrong light we must remember it was the Father who originally asked Jesus Christ, out of LOVE, to be a propitiation and expiation (full Atonement) for our sins to save us.  God the Father would say to His saints: Know how deep my love is, never doubt my love for you because, out of LOVE, I send my only Son and crushed Him to save you and bring  you to Me. 

        Now image reading this verse with what Vines said propitiation is?  It would read something like this: "This is love that God sent His only Son to be a means to cover and remit our sins."  It is becomes apparent that Vines lose wording of what propitiation is takes much deep life and beauty out of this wonderful verse.  But when read with the right biblical definitions this verse greatly exposes the Glory of Jesus Christ better.  This is why I am so passionate about such words as propitiation because when seen rightly they help elevate the hearts of the saints to heaven where they see the "Lamb as though it had been slain."  Here they will sing the heavenly praises: "Worthy is the Lamb who was slain To receive power and riches and wisdom, And strength and honor and glory and blessing!"

Conclusion:   

        Lastly, Bob I might be splitting hairs by saying propitiation is an act, not means.  And to be quite frank at first consideration I thought I might be.  The reason for this is simple.  You can actually say, "Christ was the means of our salvation by appeasing God's wrath for us once and for all", to signify propitiation.  The word means could signify a right understanding of, propitiation, if underneath it people understood it as past tense act of Christ appeasing God's wrath; as Hebrews says, once for all.  Yet means at the same time can very easily give the wrong impression for what propitiation is.  You making statements like: "So basically, it doesn't say that anything has been done for anyone in the world - yet", proves to me this word "means" although could signify a right understanding has done the opposite with you.  Therefore, I concluded that I wasn't splitting hairs.  The word "means" frankly adds too much possibility for a wrong understanding of the verse.  At best it is simply a poor word choice and at worst it is a deliberate attempt to obscure a wonderful verse.

        As I finished this letter I began to realize that Vines poor wording of "means" has blurred your ability, as it appears to me, to see the very strict difference between conversion and salvation.  I have written long, still I would like to recommend one last reading for you.  I have written a document, which is actually titled: The Difference between Conversion and Salvation.  It is on my website (www.osheadavis.com) under the "Gospel" section for my articles.  Unlike this letter, which I only spent a few hours on, this article I spent days researching on and carefully writing.  I would greatly encourage you to read it; for as I looked over your email this article answers two or more other questions which you hinted at, which I did not go over in this letter of response.

        This is why reformed theology is "Cross theology."  It all happened, salvation that is, at Calvary! Christ is a complete Savior, and, therefore, no one compares to His Honor and Fame! Amen.

I hope I was helpful and was not to bold with you. 

Sincerely Yours together in the Labor of Christ our Lord: Oshea

Bob  wrote: "Haven't had time to dig deep into this yet, but would you reject Calvin's phrase, "sufficient for all, efficient for the elect"?"

         This is fine as long as you understand this is a broad theological statement and not a direct explaining of "propitiation" in context of this verse.  Furthermore, without proper understanding of "covenant theology" this phrase will ring sallow or might be hard to grasp. 

            You need to realize that Jesus Christ had a Covenant or a "Will" with His Father and only had the elect's names in it.  When Jesus said He would die and pay for sins, it was only to these people in the contract that the payment of His blood was actually given. It was only for these, that the Father, or the bank creditor, received actually tangible payment for. 

        So what Calvin means here is that Christ blood was valuable or "sufficient" enough to redeem all mankind, but since He was only in contract for the particular persons with His Father it was only "efficient" for to pay for them.  Those who God did not receive actual payment in blood for, by Christ, by name, these God is still holding their negative credit against them, for Christ blood was not given for them in payment.  For the persons the Father actually received tangible payment, when Christ died for them by name, the Father has nothing to hold against for all eternity, for the records show: paid in full, on this date, at this time by Christ 2000 years ago. I hope this helps.

Sincerely: Oshea

Dear:  Bob

          God's grace was with me yesterday and in my reading of a John Calvin sermon I came across, it reads as the following:

          "We must seek our salvation in Jesus Christ and receive by faith the blessing which He acquired for us by His death and suffering.  Let us know that He suffered for us to (1) appease God's wrath and that His is the sacrifice which has (2) erased all our iniquities." 

         Here Calvin is unmistakably referring to, The Day of Atonement.  As I described in my original letter, during the Day of Atonement there were two goats used by the high priest in order to bring "atonement" for the people to whom it was offered for.  The first goat was the "sin offering" used to appease God's wrath against our sin.  The second goat was the "escape goat" that was used to take away the sins of the people, or as Calvin puts it, to erase all our iniquities.  As I have already said these, although strong connected, are in fact two different acts, so that the definition of propitiation and expiation are different.  This first act is what 1 John 2:2 refers to in the word "propitiation", which means in the Greek "to appease."  The second act involving the removal of sins from the guilty party is called by theological terms as "expiation." 

         Calvin's statement stands in broad day light and shows what I have said is true: "He suffered for us to (propitiation) appease God's wrath and that His is the sacrifice which has (expiation) erased all our iniquities."  

        So that earlier when you asked about my thoughts on Calvin's commentary of 1 John 2:2 when he says that, sufficient for all, efficient for the elect, I said it was fine to see it in this light as long as you understand it is a broad theological statement and not a direct explaining of the word propitiation.  I rightly assumed Calvin did indeed understand the direct meaning of propitiation as I have already shown. 

       What this means is that if you understand the direct meaning of propitiation and of covenant theology then Calvin's broad theological statement of, sufficient for all, efficient for the elect, can be rightly understood unto the glory of God's grace.  Seeing that Calvin saw propitiation in the same way as I have explained, then  you will likwise not be able to understand His theological statement as he intended without standing on this same foundation of what propitiation is: Christ in a one time act appeasing God's almighty wrath by being a blood sacrifice for us.

        To help you understand covenant theology a little better is a little sample from a book I am writing.  I will talk that by understanding about sins as debt and Christ's blood as life payment you will be able to see the clearness of the Everlasting Covenant of Grace and the immovable assurance it gives to all the children of faith.

I will post this on my site (on the same article), which as far as I know Calvin adhered to so that you might understand where Calvin is coming from in His statement.

Sincerely: Oshea

About Covenant theology particularly about Christ's payment of blood within this contract.

(I might have some of this below on other parts of my site but I wish to put it here as well.)

          "The Day of Atonement[1] (Yom Kippur) was one of the most important days of the year for the Jewish people.  The most significant aspect of this celebration concerned two spotless goats.  It was above all things a teaching tool (as Paul says in Galatians 3:23-24) to reveal the depth and glory to be seen in the ministry of the Christ, God's personally chosen and eternal sacrifice.   The high priest would take the first goat (propitiation) and slaughter it and then take its blood to sprinkle it on the mercy seat in the Holy of Holies.  Why?  Hebrews 9:22, "Without shedding of blood there is no remission."  That is to say that God made blood to be the payment of life itself.  God made all things and made this one of its rules.  Our lives were over and ruined by our committing sin!  This is why the high priest slaughtered the goat, spilling its blood.  The goat's blood was life payment for our life.  In this act the goat took our sin and thus took our ruined guilty life.  Sin requires death, therefore, the goat took our death in our place for us.  And its blood was life payment for our life.  What this meant on God's part was that God's wrath was quieted and fulfilled.  This is not a light issue but one of the most persuasive issues in the bible.  Over 600 hundred does the bible talks of God's wrath and many of these times concerns this idea of having God and His wrath appeased[2].  As the Judge over creation God has clearly said His wrath and justice is against every sin.  But in this case the goat took and absorbed the wrath for us.  In other words the goat redirected the wrath of God from us onto itself.  The sins we committed irrevocably must to be punished and so they were on the goat.  Therefore, God's justice is not forgotten but fulfilled, leaving us free.

        Hebrews 11:4, "By faith Abel offered to God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, through which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts."  The writer of Hebrews has this to say as well: "without shedding of blood there is no [forgiveness]."[3]  That is why God rejected Cain's fruit sacrifice, because it did not have blood.  Blood was looked upon as life payment and so Cain did not offer a worthy sacrifice, to symbolically in faith, seek God's favor and mercy....

         Again, blood was basically life payment. Indeed God Himself said in, Leviticus 17:11, "The life of the flesh is in the blood, and I have given it to you on the altar to make atonement for your souls; for it is the blood by reason of the life that makes atonement."  So the priest would take this blood, or life payment into the holiest place in the temple to offer this as payment for the sins of the people.  But Jesus instead of finding another animal, which did not have enough value to take away all ours sins, instead as High Priest sacrificed Himself and gave His blood as life payment to His Father.   In Hebrews 9:12 we learn that Jesus, just like the earthy high priest, took His human touchable blood into Heaven itself and pays to the Father the full price for our sin.  His blood, in the Father's eyes, has infinite beauty and worth and so has value enough to pay and make atonement for all sins committed....

        How did the Father receive this payment from His beloved Son?

        Hebrews 9:12,24, "Not with the blood of goats and calves, but with His own blood He entered the Most Holy Place once for all, having obtained eternal redemption... Christ has not entered the holy places made with hands, which are copies of the true, but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us."

          I have had much joy thinking on this, because of the sheer weight of its touchable-ness.  Verses like these give much tangible force for our faith to grab a hold of.  Our lord Jesus Christ wrapped Himself in real physical human flesh and died on the cross at a definite place at a definite time.  What a strong consolation for our faith to touch and believe.  The marvel of these verses, to me, is as amazing as God wrapping Himself in human flesh.  Here Jesus our lord and Savior is carrying His own physical blood to the invisible[4] God in Heaven, His Father.   Where is heaven?  We know not its location, nor can these small eyes of ours even see it.  It is true that God the Father has never been seen!  Except that we see the Father in Jesus Christ our Lord.  Colossians 1:15, "[Christ] is the image of the invisible God." 

          So the scene set before us is one of wonderful glory.  Jesus Christ after His death, in His human form, goes to the spiritual heaven, before His invisible Father and has with Him His physical human blood to give!  Some people might be foolish to think this is only a symbol or that this verse is like a descriptive vision similar to what John experienced in Revelation.  Yet, this is quite wrong.  There is no such langue or explanation anywhere like that in the book of Hebrews.  The writer goes through much effort to show a physical and eternal Jesus Christ tangibly doing the role and acts of a High Priest.  The writer goes on to say this was so that He might once and for all completely remove our sins!  These verses before us are reality!  Jesus had to go through these acts, as a High Priest, in order to save us.  Like I say over and over, which bears repeating, symbols or dreams do not save in real life!  But a real physical Jesus Christ, being God and tangibly doing every thing as a mediator for us does bring salvation.

         This is good news for our faith.  Here the Lord Jesus Christ at a definite time and definite place presented His physical human blood that was shed on the cross to His Father.  But why do this?  Blood in the bible is often the payment of life or life payment.  To pay for life you do not need coins or printed presidents but blood.  This is why Jesus took His blood to the Father.  He was giving the physical payment for our salvation to His Father.

        A high priest in the Old Testament would kill the sacrifice then take its blood into the holiest place before the mercy seat.  It was here the priest would present the blood, as life payment, to God and intercede on behalf of the people.  This is what Jesus did, for He is our High Priest being sworn in by God in the covenant of grace.[5]  He took His own blood, shed for our sins, and then physically took it to the invisible God and right then and there paid the Father completing the transition marked out in the everlasting covenant.  Jesus promised He would pay for the debt of our sin and He did!  This payment was no vision or spiritual thought that buzzed between the Father and His Son, but in time at a definite location it was tangibly paid.   Jesus promised to pay for our sins before time began.  And now in the fullness of time physically finished His promised when after He died on the cross, in the office of a high priest, physically gave His precious blood to His Father finalizing the payment. 

        It is finished.  It is eternal.  Our salvation from the consequence of sin has already been paid in full to the Judge who kept the record of our debts and wrongs.  It is over! 

I love this because it gives my weak heart such a firm and touchable object to rest in.  I can see my sin being paid for over 2000 long years ago.  The Judge who held the record of all my horrible sin and wrongs was paid in full.  My debt needed a life payment and so, Jesus the wonderful, sacrificed Himself and paid in blood my debt of sin.  Our marvelous God has left us so much wonderful and tangible scenes, which actually took place, for our faith to rest in securely.  I dare say that when most people complain of little faith it is due because they do not look enough at the bible where we tangible see our sin eternally removed from us.  There is no reason for our little faith.  God has kindly given us all we need if we actually take the time to pray and wonder over our marvelous High Priest long enough. 

        Look my readers, look and see your Emanuel making and end of all your sin!

        Lastly, it is impossible for God not to let anyone into heaven who Jesus paid for right there and then to the Father over 2,000 years ago.  Once something is paid for then the debt is gone, punishment is over and anger is no longer needed.  At that definite time and place Jesus Christ physically gave His blood to His Father in payment.   Sin is paid for, wrath gone! 

         Therefore, how sure is it then that every single person whom the Lord Jesus Christ died for will irrevocably be completely saved?  Here now is the LORD Himself to answer this question: Jeremiah 33:14, "Behold, the days are coming,' says the LORD, 'that I will perform that good thing which I have promised to the house of Israel and to the house of Judah: 15 'In those days and at that time I will cause to grow up to David A Branch of righteousness; He shall execute judgment and righteousness in the earth. 16 In those days Judah will be saved, And Jerusalem will dwell safely. And this is the name by which she will be called: THE LORD OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS."  This promise the revealing of His Covenant of Grace by the righteous Christ's Blood, which was first, revealed to Adam and more specifically to Israel by her leaders and prophets. 

          Now what is God's response to the complete success of the righteous Christ's accomplishments to every person for whom He bled?  Jeremiah 33:20, "Thus says the LORD: 'If you can break My covenant with the day and My covenant with the night, so that there will not be day and night in their season, 21 'then My covenant may also be broken with David My servant, so that he shall not have a son to reign on his throne, and with the Levites, the priests, My ministers."  And again, Jeremiah 33:22, "As the ghost of heaven cannot be numbered, nor the sand of the sea measured, so will I multiply the descendants of David My servant and the Levites who minister to Me.' " 23 Moreover the word of the LORD came to Jeremiah, saying, 24 "Have you not considered what these people have spoken, saying, 'The two families which the LORD has chosen, He has also cast them off'? Thus they have despised My people, as if they should no more be a nation before them. 25 " Thus says the LORD: 'If My covenant is not with day and night, and if I have not appointed the ordinances of heaven and earth, 26 'then I will cast away the descendants of Jacob and David My servant, so that I will not take any of his descendants to be rulers over the descendants of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob." 

         Therefore, if a human being cannot stop the seasons from happing then not one iota of this covenant of grace will be stopped or fail in its every specific intention to every single person.  Some might say man's choice may stop salvation form coming to a particular individual, which the Covenant of Grace intended to save.  But this is not the logic that Yahweh gives.  He clearly states the only way a person could stop the sure mercies of David being applied to them, purchased by Christ, is not man's choice, but instead if that person could stop the day and night from happening; which is to say that it is impossible beyond any human being to stop salvation from being fully applied and accomplished to themselves or any other particular person whom was previously stipulated in the Everlasting Covenant of Grace.  If your will and choices cannot stop the day and night then you cannot stop the God of Love from saving you and bringing you to Himself, if your name was written in that ancient bounded contract.[6]  You might hate God now, but sooner or later when the Spirit fully applies His miracle working power upon your soul, you will be willing in that day.  God does not fail! God's love made sure to it that every person who He wished to be saved that it would be accomplished in full.  Our Heavenly Father is an Awesome God!

         Hebrews 1:3, "[Christ] who being the brightness of His glory...He [has] by Himself purged our sins.""

[1] Leviticus chapter 16

[2] This idea (God's wrath being pacified) has a biblical word called "propitiation." Literal translations have it in these locations: Romans 3:25 - Hebrews 2:17 - 1 John 2:2 and 4:10

[3] Hebrews 9:22

[4] 1 Timothy 1:17, "Now to the King eternal, immortal, invisible."  Also 1 John 4:12, "No one has seen God at any time."

[5] Hebrews 7:21 and Hebrews 12:24, "Jesus [is] the Mediator of the new covenant."  The particular type of mediator here referred to is that of high priest.

[6] The same idea that God only chose to save a certain number of persons by writing them in the everlasting covenant of Christ's blood is also describe very similarly in the biblical teaching of the "Lamb's Book of life who was Slain." RSV Revelation 13:8, "Every one whose name has not been written before the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb that was slain."